The Perspectives Podcast

Book | Happy Money: The Japanese Art of Making Peace with Your Money | A Conversation with Author Ken Honda | The Perspectives Podcast With Dr. Susan Birne-Stone and Marco Ciappelli

Episode Summary

The Perspectives podcast is a new show on ITSPmagazine, co-hosted by Marco Ciappelli and Dr. Susan Birne-Stone. The first episode features Ken Honda, the author of "Happy Money," who discusses the different perspectives of happy money and the importance of having a positive relationship with money.

Episode Notes


Ken Honda, Author

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Dr. Susan Byrne Stone, Therapist, Coach, Professor, Consultant, Talk Show Producer & Host and Mentor

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Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast

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Episode Introduction

"The Perspectives podcast is a new show on ITSPmagazine, co-hosted by Marco Ciappelli and Dr. Susan Birne-Stone. The first episode features Ken Honda, the author of "Happy Money," who discusses the different perspectives of happy money and the importance of having a positive relationship with money."

Welcome to the first episode of the Perspectives podcast, hosted by Marco Ciappelli and Dr. Susan Birne-Stone. In this episode, they invite special guest Ken Honda to discuss the different perspectives of his new book Happy Money. The show takes a closer look at the various aspects of our lives, including technology, cybersecurity, relationships, personal experiences, books, life hacking, personal development, sociology, and psychology.

Ken Honda is an entrepreneur and author whose passion for writing began after his retirement at the age of 29. He is known for his books on happy money, a concept that involves giving and receiving freely, and he has sold over 9 million copies of his books globally. In this episode, Ken shares his inspiring journey of self-publishing and how he gave away 2.3 million copies of his gift booklets for free, costing him around 2.5 to 3 million US dollars. His story is a testament to the principle of free giving and free receiving, which he believes is a universal law that works.

Ken also emphasizes the importance of our relationship with money, which he believes touches every aspect of our lives, including our relationships with family, work, and our peace of mind. He asserts that having a positive relationship with money can transform our lives and lead to happiness and financial stability. Ken shares his approach to happy money and how it has helped millions of people worldwide.

Listeners are invited to tune in to this exciting first episode and join the discussion on the perspectives of happy money. The hosts encourage listeners to share their thoughts and subscribe to the Perspectives podcast for more insightful conversations about various aspects of life.

About the book:

Ken Honda‚ÄĒJapan‚Äôs #1 bestselling personal development guru‚ÄĒteaches you how to achieve peace of mind when it comes to money with this instant national bestseller.¬†

Too often, money is a source of fear, stress, and anger, often breaking apart relationships and even ruining lives. We like to think money is just a number or a piece of paper, but it is so much more than that. Money has the ability to smile, it changes when it is given with a certain feeling, and the energy with which it imbues us impacts not only ourselves, but others as well.

Although Ken Honda is often called a ‚Äúmoney guru,‚ÄĚ his real job over the past decade has been to help others discover the tools they already possess to heal their own lives and relationships with money. Learn how to treat money as a welcome guest, allowing it to come and go with respect and without resentment; understand and improve your money EQ; unpack the myth of scarcity; and embrace the process of giving money, not just receiving it.

This book isn’t to fix you, because as Ken Honda says, you’re already okay!



Book: Happy Money: The Japanese Art of Making Peace with Your Money:


To see and hear more The Perspectives Podcast content on ITSPmagazine, visit:

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Episode Transcription

Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording as errors may exist. At this time we provide it ‚Äúas it is‚ÄĚ and we hope it can be useful for our audience.



Marco Ciappelli, Dr. Susan Birne-Stone, Ken Honda 


Marco Ciappelli  00:02

All right, everybody. This is exciting. It's first episode of a new show on ITSPmagazine. It's called perspectives. And for those that have been listening to our different channels, I will say perspective, even if we never officially called a show perspectives, looking at things from different perspective is what a lot of our hosts do anyway, on on ITSPmagazine. Some focus more on technology, some focus on cybersecurity, some focus on things that are more about the mind, and relationship and personal experiences, because it's all part of who we are. And perspective is a new show that I co host with Dr. Susan burns stone he or she is hi Susan,


Dr. Susan Birne-Stone  00:53

I am so excited to be here today. This is our first episode. And we have an unbelievable guests that I am so happy to have on and happy is the operative word because it's I'm so happy to have Ken Honda on and he's going to talk a lot we're going to discuss the different perspectives of happy money. And I just will tell a quick story that happened to me today. I was actually listening to the book this morning, my early morning walk. And I actually fell in love with this book. I was so excited. Pleasantly surprised. I you know, sometimes, you know, you read the title happy money. Okay, to be honest, I was like a little bit, you know, doubtful. And then once I started to listen to it, I was like, Oh, my goodness, this is fantastic. And I'll explain why. So I'm really excited. I get home, I live in an apartment building. I get into the elevator, I see a neighbor still listening, but he's saying, you know, hello, and then I shut the audio off for a minute. And I say here. Hi, how are you the regular pleasantries? And his answer is, you know, paying the bills. I just went Oh, so I said, Oh, have I got a book for you immediately told him the name of the book, the offer and said you must get this book, it's going to change your life. That was it. I don't know him that well. But so can this was just so unbelievable that he was right there. I'm paying the bills. Right? So let me introduce Ken, why don't you introduce yourself? And we know that the book is called Happy money. And why don't you just tell us a little bit about what you've been doing. This has been your life's passion. And about.


Ken Honda   02:34

Yes, thank you so much, Susan, and Marco. So happy to be here. You know, I happen to be in the enterpreneur world. So I happen to be at the very early stage of investing starting a business and foundation. So I feel like I'm in the right spot. Because wherever I was, was going to be so big, you know, some of the public companies and the big foundation. So I'm, I'm very good at being the first. So I think you pick the right person. I started writing about happy happiness and money about 20 years ago in Japan, I was retired for four years for my baby girl. Now she's 24. So it's about 24 years, I retired when I was in my late 20s. And before then I was I had consulting an investing firm. So I could retire early. Because I learned so much about money. My father was a successful tax accountant. So he started to to teach me about money. Very, very young, six or seven. So I could I could start my business when I was 21. And then made enough money by age 29. And the study writing from a 34. And it's been 20 years of my career, published more than about 200 books and sold about almost 9 million copies of


Dr. Susan Birne-Stone  04:04

that. I just want to underscore that. How many books


Ken Honda   04:08

you know, my original work is about 70 Something but including the paper box and the other international editions. I think physical books are out more than 200 books and sold about 9 million copies.


Dr. Susan Birne-Stone  04:22

And I loved that maybe you can just share a little bit. Your very first I consider it a book even though it wasn't a published book yet how you started in terms of becoming a writer because I think it's an interesting perspective. You never really meant to be a writer, but because and I think that that's something that you can share because I think the audience would love to hear that even though they're gonna need it in the book or here. Yeah, right.


Ken Honda   04:49

I was, I think 32 or 33 At the time I was into three years of semi retirement I got stuck. I got bored you know, I I was very good at changing diapers and to say And, you know, developed enough skills for babysitting. So I thought, What should I do for the rest of my life? If I was 70 years old, I'm okay. But I was 30. And then I got this inspiration to write. And I thought No kidding, you know, I had a, I was in accounting and law major student before, but not erupt about writing. But it just kept on coming. So I started writing a few pages on money and how you can do it invest it protected, and that sort of thing. And I just gave it to my friends, and they loved it. So they said, Can I read more? Okay, you know, I had nothing else to do. So I started writing for about 26 pages. So I started split, stapling my journal and just started giving away my friends at lunch time. And also, you know, friends get together. They loved it. And they asked me if it's okay to share with their family members or their employees, and it's okay. Yeah, of course, definitely. No, I'll just give it for free. And I started stapling it every day to 20 booklets and 30 booklets I got really so and my friend recommended me to hire printer. So which I did. And instead of ordering 200, he said the minimum is 1000. And I said, Okay, 1000. I don't know if I can you know if I want that many, but he said 3000 copies 1000 copies, not much difference, because it's just the cost of paper. So I signed a contract for 3000 by mistake. And two weeks later, two trucks came in to my apartment. And then they're the boxes of booklets I didn't, the guy didn't tell me how many boxes he said, it's gonna be cheaper. So I I went crazy, just got rid of all my stuff, and just put all the boxes in and I told my wife, I'm gonna get rid of my boxes in six months now has she smile? And said, three months? Either boxes out? Are you out? I mean, crazy. Just giving up my booklet and happiness and money. I remember some of my friends love that. So you want 100 copies, right? Okay, I'm gonna send you 100 copies. It's like a very pushing.


Dr. Susan Birne-Stone  07:14

Well, this is true. This is the true meaning can of self publishing. Yes, you did the ultimate and self publishing. Yeah, but


Ken Honda   07:21

I was risking my divorce. So I send them up. And then about two weeks, I get all them away. And I got flooded of faxes, you know, those times there is a machine called fax machine. Then, when I wake up, there's this stack of fax sheets, asking for more copies. Because at the end of the booklets, I said, if you want a copy, I'm gonna send send you a copy for free because it's my passion. So another 3000 copies I printed now I hire a storage unit, and then another 5000, another 5000. Everything is for free. So by the time I printed about 100,000 copies, a publisher called me, and then they want me to write a book. And the rest is history. Yeah.


Marco Ciappelli  08:10

But isn't there a lesson right there that I haven't read the book, but I got the idea. And I saw your website. And I thought it was fascinating, and I wanted to talk to you about it. But even what you just did is a little bit of give for free, and then you take back something bigger than what you gave. And I from what I understand that it's very much connected with some of the elements that you explain in the book. Is that correct?


Ken Honda   08:40

Yeah. So the essence of happy money is free giving free receiving. So I wanted to do a little bit of experiment. What if I gave away I'd say $100,000 worth of things, you know, would I get anything out of it? So I did this experiment, you know, I printed as a result, I printed about 2.3 million copies of gift booklets for free which cost me about 2.5 to $3 million dollars US dollars. You know for gift. I haven't I don't know so many people who have given away for you know, for free $2 million. So look what happened. So just even for book royalties, I got probably more than 10 or more 10 million US dollars by book royalties. And I've done a lot of correspondence courses. So the $2.3 million I gave away for free went back more than 10 or 20 times in money. So what do you give you receive is a true universal law that I've experienced in my life. And since people look at me, look at my lifestyle, look at free giving and free receiving. A lot of people imitated my stories and then there are just a few arching both financially and emotionally, so I truly believe in a free gifting. And also free receiving life is in the flow of free receiving and free gifting. And I hope in 20 years now from now, our whole world will be like that. That's my vision,


Dr. Susan Birne-Stone  10:19

you know, can I know that some people are very skeptical of that idea about you know, you give, and then you'll get more. And I agree with it. But I also know working in this field, in terms of working with people with their relationships with themselves with people, what I loved what you talked about, maybe you can talk a little bit about it here is you really go into all the different aspects of one's relationship with money. And what you do beautifully in this book, is really talk about all the different influences, but it really comes down to one's own relationship with money. And, and that's an if you could talk a little bit about that, as well as and I love when you talk about the EQ and IQ, right? Is that so? So even for people who may be listening, go, oh, yeah, I'm supposed to give small, you know, giveaway, and I'll get that even go about that. There's so many things that they can start with in this book that you know, you talk about, so, yeah, yeah. So


Ken Honda   11:22

I'm not a preacher. So I don't expect people to believe in me, I believe in the principles. All I can say is it works, you know, and how come almost 9 million peoples have bought my books over the past 20 years, because it works. And my podcast download is more than 52 million downloads in the past 10 years. You know, Japan has only 130 million people. So it's like one, almost half the population have listened to my podcast, which means that whatever I teach works, to some people, you know, and then


Dr. Susan Birne-Stone  12:00

people are probably learning just from I haven't finished it yet. But from what I heard it, would you really teaching people to how to learn about themselves, relation to money, and better relationship with money, and you with the perspective that you give, especially thinking that was new for me, some of the steps I'm familiar with, but some of them was like, oh, thinking about it more as happy versus unhappy. And I love the story wallet to write that book. So maybe you can talk a little bit about, you know, what is your what would you want to share now? Yeah, so relationship,


Ken Honda   12:40

your relationship with money determines every aspect of your life, because money touches everything money touches, relationship, your work, your money, and also your peace of mind. And, and your relationship with kids, your parents with your loved ones. So if you have a lousy relationship with the money, your life will be very lousy and miserable. But if you have a beautiful friendship, like relationship with money, money will be right there when you when you wouldn't want to do something. But unfortunately, we have so many bad experiences in the past, since we're, we are five or six, we've been denied for summer camps because of money. We had the terrible breakups because of money. And we've been scolded so many times about money by our parents. So we are terrified about money. So as much as we want money, we don't want money to be close to us. So this love and hate relationship really messes up our peace of mind. And also, at the end of every month, we feel frustrated and agitated and get some people get depressed, or some people get too over excited about money, money is just neutral energy. So once you know that you need to take a look at your relationship, you know, right right in front of you. After that, you can truly transform your life. I've done this for the past 20 years, and I've impacted millions of people's lives. And for the past three years, I've been doing this in English and the effect is the same. It's the same in Azerbaijan, in Poland and Finland, and France and Italy, US, Australia, and all the Arabic countries China the same, because the way we interact with money determines how we interact with life. So it's almost like a self reflection of who you are. If we believe in in bad world or cold world. World. We think people are mean people are not friendly. And then you experience that. If you think this world is full of great people, and people will help you and so generous. You know, your experience like that. So My, I'm not talking about naive philosophy. But because people do only half my national bestseller that I saw about half a million copies is do what you love. But make sure money follows you, you know, people do the first half, you know, they play guitar, they do what they love, but they forget to make sure that money follows them. So unless you do this last part, you're just you're just happy person, but without any money. So I'm just saying, you can be happy. And also you can have money.


Marco Ciappelli  15:34

And that's kind of like going on in the conversation lately about companies. Doing good. Doesn't mean that you're being a non profit, you can be doing good, and still have employees and pay them and make money and, and, you know, do give your contribution to a better society after you know, I'm talking about environment and talking about governance in the famous words that we all use nowadays in technology. But I'm kind of curious what you said that your for, I mean, your approach, I don't want to call it formula, but your approach has been well received everywhere now. I've been in Japan a couple of times, I love the culture, I find it very different from the American culture or any other culture. And, you know, I want to ask you a question, in particular. So number one, I'm kind of surprised that you would easily adapt in and I'm wondering if you had to make any changes in the way you present maybe different metaphors or perspective that come from a different angle. The other one is, when I was in Japan last few months ago, I was in a in a temple in a in a in a Shinto shrine, and some people were washing money in a little waterfall. So I did, because I'm like, Hey, I'm here. You know, I don't know exactly what I'm doing. I'm gonna put some, you know, I think 4000 yen or something under the water. And then I noticed how they were cleaning it. And then somebody told me in English, that it's a good hospice for Yes, welcome in the money. But I'm wondering, so is that part of the relationship that? Yeah, culture has?


Ken Honda   17:21

Yes. So I teach more Zen philosophy. So some of the ideas could be a little hard to understand for Westerners. So the thing they did is cleansing the money. You know, we feel like bad energy comes with money. Because a lot of people want money, it's a lot of greed. So by being a purified with water, just think about it in a non Christian church to just if there is any fountain in the church, don't you think about energy and money would be cleared and cleansed with, you know, holy water? So that's the idea. So we think a lot of energy is around coins and papers.


Dr. Susan Birne-Stone  17:58

Now, can you even point out in the book, that money is changing? Right? Like a lot, especially in now, many people in the younger generation don't actually have dollar bills, rather just all coins? So how does that change the baths? Then? Like, how do you like Are you cleaning credit? What do you foresee?


Ken Honda   18:22

Yeah, so it's the same thing. You know, my favorite questions I keep, I start asking people and I talked to 1000s people all the time. So they're like, say, 2000 people in front of me. And I asked people, what is money? You know, people think it's a simple question. And I say, How many people think this is money? I showed the paper and coins? And everybody raised his hand. Right? And how about the credit card? They like half the people said, is that money? Oh, no, no, it's just a plastic thing. And how about cryptocurrency is that money or not? And then people don't know if they should raise your hands. So we're so confused about money, you know, it's a credit card, it's not money. It's just a little thing. credit that they everybody would believe that you pay next month, you know, and then it's so this is not money. So, a lot of young people are so confused as well. But in essence, energy is what is money. If you do what it what, what you don't like and then bring in the money. The money carries sad or angry energy with the money. And if you do what you love and does help people and the money comes in, in, in a symbol of as a symbol of appreciation. Money comes in with love and pure friendship money, which will make you feel so good about it about receiving, you know, in your heart. Just think about it. If you look at take a look at your money in your wallet, do you feel happy about it? Or do you feel like squeezed or frustrated? It's been cause how you made money to begin with, determines how you feel about money. So I have helped so many people and all my money comes through Money Back Guarantee system. So if people don't like my services, they can get the money free. That means all the money I receive is as a result of making somebody happy. So all the money I have in my bank account is a result of making somebody happy, that means happy money. So if you feel like, all the money you have is happy money. You can enjoy spending, because it blesses other people, you know, in North America, what I love about tipping, you know, so I can keep strangers, which is okay, so I usually tip about 25% 30%, sometimes 50%. And I've never seen any waiters and cleaning person smile so much. It's only just not huge amount. But you know, that big smile, they've never received so many big tips in their entire life for 20 years, you know, I can surprise somebody with only dollar $10 or $20, sometimes $50. But I love this surprising people with my happy money. So if you have more happy money, you can make people super happy. And you don't have to be a billionaire to do that.


Marco Ciappelli  21:23

So to reconnect with with the cultural difference, and you're already going there with the experience that you may have in the US, but I'm thinking again, in other countries, but the thing is that I'm understanding is that you don't you really talk about it feeling? Right? Yes, it's so it does apply maybe differently in a social cultural context. Feeling is the same. So that is the key of being such a global uniform wall. Why?


Ken Honda   22:01

Mark? I think it's because you come from a different culture. So you, you can you appreciate as much as I do. Right? So thank you for that. You know, I get sometimes so curious about how people think of what I teach. And I wanted to be an anthropologist when I was in my college. So it just fascinates me. The same thing, I talk about money container, you know, everybody is born with a certain size money container. When I talk about that, American people and European people ask me, Hey, can how can I make my money container bigger? And they asked the same thing. On the other hand, Japanese people asked me can how can I satisfy myself with my container right now? So it's a different approach. So even I talk about the same thing. People think I can make it bigger, how can I make it bigger? Or how can I make myself more satisfied, more fulfilling, with the same size money container, it's a different approach. So I'm not judging in one way or another, but a different approach. And I really enjoyed the difference. And I love that. So for those of you who want to make money container bigger, it's very simple. You can give more you give more energy, you receive more energy, if you want to satisfy yourself with a money container, you enjoy your life more in a deep way. So the depth of happiness will change the quality of the money. So even the same amount of money you earn, the depth of happiness gets bigger.


Dr. Susan Birne-Stone  23:40

And that's very related to what you talk about in terms of money. EQ, yes, EQ. And can you talk a little bit about that in terms of the difference and the importance of


Ken Honda   23:50

right, I mean, EQ so so in my accounting consulting days, in my early 20s, I realized that, you know, I've met many financially savvy people, you know, some people, some of my clients took them took their companies to public and they become millionaires. And then also in the process of 10 and 20 years, I've seen people go up and down in so many times, you know, because of the dark bubble and then the the burst of the bubble and the cryptocurrency bubble and then burst. And I've seen the most smart people like who start this you know, cryptocurrency, he is in the process of losing everything right? So, even though you are so smart in money, IQ, money intelligence, if you are messed up emotionally, which I call it money, EQ, you could lose everything. So you have to have both money, IQ for money, financial intelligence, and also money, emotional intelligence. If you have both, you can build a strong foundation of both money IQ and money EQ And if you have only one of the two, your financial fortress is very, it is breakable.


Marco Ciappelli  25:10

Now, you mentioned at the beginning that it's follow the Zen philosophy. Yes. And and I can definitely see that in the giving and receiving and a few of the things you talked about. But I'm wondering if Is it enough to just make certain changes in the way you look at just the money compartment of life? Or does it require some changes in other aspects of your life, I mean, it's hard to think that that's, you know, I just want more money, and I'm gonna pretend that I care about everything else is a more of a profound approach to this.


Ken Honda   25:51

You know, it's just same with life, you know, people have a deeper life, other people have a seller life and either way is fine. So, it's up to you, if you want to have a more spiritually fulfilling life, you should pay more attention to energy side of money. If you're okay was only just materialistic stuff, you just just look at the money in in numbers, either way is fine. But in terms of money, EQ and IQ, you should have both to have a steady, strong financial base. And what's interesting is that, you know, I always people think, when I get to know Ken, Ken's work, I just simply wanted to be rich. But after learning with him for a few years, I realized that's not enough, I want more in a way that spiritually enriches me. So people want emotional abundance, at the same time, financial abundance, which both of which are very, very important. But unfortunately, in North America and Europe, this invisible assets, I call it, emotional abundance, is not often regarded as important things, but think about it. And when you hear invisible assets, which is friendship, peace of mind, your bonding connections, and a sense of community is very important. But it's so highly depreciated by people, you know, I think, in 20 years from now, people will appreciate more of invisible assets than visible assets, I think it's gonna happen in the next five years or so, because they will lose a lot of visible assets in terms of numbers. So they'll beginning they'll be looking at more of invisible assets that they have different got to appreciate. So instead of just going on expensive vacations, you know, they can take a walk, or they can go to a park in a nearby on foot. With only like four, three or four of you, you know, family, make a sandwich or something, you can be as happy as somebody fly all the way to exotic exotic islands, and then spend 1000s of dollars. So now you know, that invisible asset, it doesn't cost you anything. And if you know that, you know, you don't have to compare with other people, like your neighbor went to Hawaii or like exotic places. But I did you know, you don't have to compare with anybody at all.


Dr. Susan Birne-Stone  28:33

Yeah. And you do that so beautifully in the book in terms of talking about, again, one's relationship with self and also defining Well, what is happiness? And, and what is making people happy? And, you know, you mentioned what you think is going to happen in five years, 20 years, maybe you can talk a little bit more. I know, you address this in your last chapter about what do you think you have some ideas about AI? And I know, you know, you're you're not the AI expert, but you have some really interesting perspective on AI and money. And so can you talk a little bit about that? Yes,


Ken Honda   29:09

and AI and other computers, there are going to replace a lot of our work, and then don't get scared. You know, they'll just get rid of our manual labor type of thing. You know, just we we used to wash our clothes by hands, and a lot of other things. But now, vacuum cleaners do it and there's this you know, little guy who just walks around at night and just, you know, cleaned up whole floor. So AI will probably act the same similar ways day, we'll get rid of all the manual type of work. And then we're going to experience the hardships for the next few years. But after the economic collapse of some kind, we're going to come up with a more fair system that everybody should appreciate one another I think there will be a basic income of some sort. So we don't have to work for the sake of living. So, because there will be a technology to grow food without much cost. So for survival for our own survival, it's not going to cost much. So if that happens, we can focus on more important things in life, which will be art, music, and all the other creative activities. So I think we'll be free from more manual labors. And for the sake of survival, it will be guaranteed globally, wherever you are, which nations you're born into, I think our basic survival will be guaranteed. But I think a lot of people will get bored. So they'll do something, you know, I retired for four years, I got super bored. And so I started writing. So people will start something creative with their time and their gifts. And we will appreciate one another for their acting skills, or singing or cooking, or whatever that is, so the basic needs will be met by global income system. And then after that, if you want to work, do something more for other people, you get more money, so you can get to travel. So if you want to receive more, you do a little work. But by doing what you love, so in a five years or so, we're going to experience a totally different world. That's my patient.


Marco Ciappelli  31:33

very utopian, I could go dystopian here, but I'm not going to, I'm gonna stick with that, I want to know what you think about this spiral that I run in my in my head, because that one on my thing that I do, I talk about AI and AI in relation with society. So what you described, it's beautiful. And I think that you come from a perspective, I'm going to use this word not once in a while just to remember the remind the title of the show, where you look at AI as, as a tool, how to achieve something is not the goal. And I'm running the same parallel with the way that you present Money, money is not the goal, money is the tool to buy yourself, what makes you happy, or do things that involve money. But because the ultimate goal is happiness, well being your own your society, your community. So AI can be treated as a as a foe and a villain or it could be create, consider as an ally, to free ourselves, as you described. So do you see that as well, that the parallel in terms of money can be anything depends what we do with it, it's a tool,


Ken Honda   32:53

it's like a knife, you know, you can cut yourself or you can stop people is the same thing. So if you're in the wrong hands, I think it's going to be, you know, bad for people. So once again, you know, I shared part of my positive vision, of course, I have negative vision. So either one could happen, it's up to us. So if you show, you know, the best part of ourselves from now on, I think there will be a brighter future. If we feel like, you know, there is not enough, this is my money, this is my food, there will be a lot of starvation. So it's in our hearts, it's in our hearts, and it's already in our hands, the AI the money, the all the other things that weapons, the same thing, you know, is it going to impact in a positive way? negative way? I think it's in everyone's mind. And I have a strong hope. Because we've never, we've never been connected this deep and this fast in history of humankind. And so, I think about it 10 years ago, this was like a dream, you know, maybe like a president of certain countries could have done it, but like everybody, like us can use this technology. And then about seven, eight years ago, my fathers or grandfathers could have fought against your grandfather's, right. So, and this is changing the whole thing. So once again, it's in our hands, and you don't have to wait for the society to become that way. You know, I have achieved financial independence on my own, because I believe more generosity will just bring money in. And I have impacted so many people personally. I have changed hundreds of 1000s of people for the past 20 years and they're achieving much more fulfilling life. So you can do it on your personal level. Don't wait for the government to give you the basic income you know You can start your own. So,


Dr. Susan Birne-Stone  35:02

yeah, and you also explore that in terms of the way people feel about themselves, given what they were taught their money story, I wanted to ask you, though, you know, when, because it is a very positive, everything that you recommend, you know, that I heard in the book is really all about being positive generosity, a lot of gratitude, I know is a main theme for you. How and I wonder if you have any suggestions for this, we know that there are a lot of people who have a lot of money, a lot of access a lot of power in different ways. Who believe in greed, right? Practice a lot of greed. So what do you have any suggestions for how people can deal with, let's say, for someone like me, I'm more I'm working on myself, my relationship with money, it's changed. But yet, you know, people talk about how Okay, so how do we deal with people who aren't interested in changing? Who are still the, you know, head of companies, head of countries who aren't on the same bandwagon as us, right? Don't believe in this don't want to change? And how do you deal with that within your own world? Yeah, I


Ken Honda   36:13

think it's the same with discrimination. If, like, older generation, No, probably not our generation as much. But you know, the old people in their 70s and 80s, they cannot change, unfortunately, you know, the idea about racism, and also the thing about money and hierarchy, or maybe against women or LGBT people, you know, I don't think I can change them, you know, so I just wait until they drop. So I, and younger people don't have the same presidents. So I think we need to evolve. So I let those people kind of go to the transition to the next level, and then we'll just stick together, and then you have to know it can only change yourself. So greedy, people cannot be as happy as generous people, you know, statistics show that. So if you have a personal choice, do you want to choose a path of greed, or a path of generosity, it's a personal path, you can change, we can teach people how to be more generous, you know, it's the same thing with a partnership, you cannot change your partner. Yeah, yeah, but a try, it's gonna make you more miserable. And you cannot change your kids in their, on their own. So you can change only you. So you have to, you know, remember the Serenity Prayer, you know, if you want to, there are certain things you can change. And there are certain things you cannot change and changing yourself is in your hands, and changing your financial well being also is in your hands. And as long as you know, you know what to do.


Dr. Susan Birne-Stone  38:03

And again, I think it's you know, what your book does, and your work. It really isn't, it is about money. But for me, it's also just not about money, as you said, it changes everybody's life, you're looking at it through the perspective of money, that's one aspect, but in what you bring in your tools, and and it really does change can change someone you know, Mark, I was just think it would be interesting to have this topic again, after you read the book, or listen to the book, to see how things have changed. Because, again, you know, I've personally have done a lot of work on myself in relationship with money. I do this work with many people, um, in terms of changing their relationship with money. And you've added so many interesting things in this book, you know, the whole looking at it through different lenses, and it just takes it even to a different perspective. So I want to thank you for this work. You know, it's really, it's really so important. You know, one of my goals is to spread kindness. And this book definitely does that. You know,


Ken Honda   39:08

so I'm not here again, I'm not here to change people change you. I'm just showing you directions. My students just one set, every intersection of my life there is can hundreds book. And so I'm at the intersection, you know, I'm gonna set telling you where to go. So this is like, unhappiness, this is happiness. Which one do you want to?


Dr. Susan Birne-Stone  39:32

That's what I love about it, you what the book does, if people are really Reading it or listening to it, it's going to make them think about themselves. And that's what it's going to lead them to be open to just examine themselves. And that's all we can do right is examine ourselves and it just changes. Yeah, so


Ken Honda   39:51

either way. I'm happy for your choice, and I'm just sending you all my love and friendship to all All, both of you, and all the viewers. That's all I can do. And I'm very happy that I can do that.


Marco Ciappelli  40:06

And we're very happy that you share this. This time with us. Thank you. I definitely been going on in my head, connecting with other thing about the Zen philosophy, as I mentioned during the conversation and so, yeah, Susan, I'll definitely read the book. It's in line is in the queue Have a listen. And then maybe we go back me and you and talk about it, or maybe can can come back to if the wishes. And we'll have links to your book, of course, and we know you have an arigato community, you can learn about that. And it will be in the notes of the shows of perspective. So we want to invite everybody to stay tuned for the next episode is gonna be another interesting conversation with a book author as well. And what to say, are you good to go Samos?


Ken Honda   41:04

Oh, good. I'd say.


Dr. Susan Birne-Stone  41:06

I'm so grateful. Thank you. Thank you so much, and a lot of gratitude. Thank you for your work and for sharing it with us and the world. A lot of gratitude. And thank you, Marco, and thank you to all the listeners out there. We'd love to get your feedback. What did you think about today's episode and conversation? If you have any thoughts, we'd love to hear them any recommendations for future discussions. We're here to listen, and just a lot of gratitude. Thank you.


Ken Honda   41:33

Thank you, and congratulations on a beautiful launch of a new programs.


Marco Ciappelli  41:39

Thank you very much. We'll share it with everybody that is interested. Thank you very much.